Yes, you are developing the runtime-environment :-) But: Are there any applications or games which will have such a runtime-environment on the cd in the works ?
Regards Alexander Lohrmann
RIYAN Production would like to thank James Bridge for allowing us to publish this Q&A from his home page at http://www.xmas.demon.co.uk
|
Sun, 1 Apr 2001
11:18:03 +0100
Fleecy
Amiga's strategy has always been to provide a complete solution, the Amiga Digital Environment which provides a seamless environment for content, data, applications and users on any device and across any network. In effect, the technology becomes invisible. In working hard with Tao, and our other partners, such as Sharp, and others, still be announced, and in talking and listening to the Amiga community, we have enhanced our strategy to provide a better, complete solution for all parties. The AmigaDE itself is progressing rapidly, as will soon be seen with the Sharp product releases. In the past we have targeted the AmigaDE as being both a hardware host and a software host product from cell phone to server. The home server is a key part of our Domestic Digital Habitat (TM) concept, providing a communications gateway, digital content storage facility and QoS router around the Domestic Digital Habitat. Since we already have the AmigaOS, are moving forwards with AmigaOS compatible new hardware, and have a vast legion of people who still want to use, develop for and purchase, the AmigaOS, we have decided that instead of bringing out a standalone AmigaDE for this market, we will take the best of the new and integrate it with the best of the old. In other words, Amiga will offer as the home server solution, a product that is a newly revitalised and expanded AmigaOS, with the AmigaDE tightly integrated into it. Users can thus continue to use the best of the AmigaOS, can work within the AmigaDE, or can work in both of them, transparently using the other as the user environment becomes one. Developers can now stay with the AmigaOS and develop for the AmigaDE on one machine, getting the best of both worlds. For PDA, Cellphone, STB, Console and Digital Appliance companies, they can run the AmigaDE native, or hosted on their devices, and have access to all of the AmigaDE content and device set. Families and businesses can buy Amiga Digital Repositories that provides a single universal layer. Disenchanted Windows, Linux and Apple users and developers now have a new, modern, exciting product and Amigans get to keep maintain their march into the future on the platform that they chose. Once again, Amiga has tried to bend over backwards to show its commitment to the Amiga ideals and community. We have been worked ferociously behind the scenes with users and developers to create a single, harmonious product concept that has only a single target, the future. Amiga Inc will bring management and control of the AmigaOS back inhouse. Haage and Partner have done a great job with OS3.5 and OS3.9, and will continue to work, with other contractors to help develop OS4 as we move it forwards, but as owner, Amiga Inc will now set the direction and agenda for our entire product set. What does this mean for Amigans wanting to buy the AmigaOne? It means that the OS that will run on the AmigaOne is AmigaOS4, a PPC OS that takes full advantage of the new hardware, and that will come, (in OS4.2) with a fully integrated AmigaDE layer. With the clever design of the Eyetech AmigaOne, getting access to the classic Amiga (think of the classic as just another hardware card attached to the AmigaOne), there should be full compatibility for older apps whilst getting the full benefit of the new AmigaOS4 (no more crippled emulators or context switching solutions) and the AmigaDE (binary portability, a massive content pool for both developers and users alike) and Java. Okay, let's see if this raises any questions. | |
| Question | Fleecy's Answer |
| scoutts@nlc.net.au This all sounds good to me, Would you wait for the BoXer? | AmigaOS4 will only run on hardware that conforms to the zico specification - currently that is the Eyetech AmigaOne (which also offers full backwards compatibility with AA chipset access applications) and the bPlan AmigaOne, which will run AmigaOS4 apps and older apps which use retargetable coding. We look forwards to other Amiga hardware companies developing zico based solutions and are actively talking to them. |
| Peter When will this be ready....2003? | AmigaOS4.0 will be launched in the summer, with 4.2 and 4.5 coming out at six month intervals. OS5 will be late next year. |
| but almost the whole developer channel is crying the Amiga is dead. I heard that AmigaDE will not be even native on x86 machines nor hosted on linux. Comment these PLEASE. | We have known for sometime that there are those who have their own solutions who want people to believe the Amiga is dead, so they can offer their own solution and make it a success. Unfortunately, the people saying that are not global marketing experts, technology gurus, owners of billion dollar companies - interestingly enough I have spent almost as much time trying to work with them as I have working with the others. It will not be hardware hosted on machines aimed at open desktop class or higher because all of our partners, including the ones who sell rather a lot of these machines say that there is no point. Be tried it and failed. Linux cannot break into that market (the consumer market). AmigaDE will tightly integrate with other desktop OSs just the way it will integrate with the AmigaOS and offer a value add, something that all of our partners want and see as the future. People have buried the Amiga more times than squirrels bury acorns, and you know what, it keeps on growing back. Beware the naysayers, for they have their own agendas. |
| Sinan Gurkan
Ralph Schimdt (MorphOS) says that Amiga Inc has a lot of illusions...BPlan won`t run AmigaOS4...it will run MorphOS | Amiga Inc has an agreement with bPlan to build an AmigaOne. AmigaOne computers run Amiga Inc software. Whatever else is run on it is nothing to do with us, unless it infringes our copyrights or IP. |
| Don Cox
I feel sorry for Ralph, as he has put a lot of work into MorphOS. Probably it will all work out in the end. | I have spent hours a day trying to bring all the Amiga developers together but it seems there is just too much hatred. In the end there can only be one AmigaOS, and one Amiga Inc company moving it forwards. Amiga has retaken control, is working directly with many contractors and looks forwards to all working with us to make a better Amiga in the future.. |
| Wolfbane
I might have misunderstood what you have said but my question was when can we run old apps on AmigaDE. | The AmigaDE is a stand alone universal content layer. We are going to develop AmigaOS to AmigaOS4 and AmigaOS5 for those who want to use it as such, and it will have AmigaDE embedded in it. The order is the other way around. There is an older UAE port that runs on the DE, and it is possible that someone might update it, giving you the interesting idea of having the AmigaOS running on top of DE running on top of the AmigaOS ;-) |
| Philippe 'Elwood' FERRUCCI
But Fleecy WHY (yes WHY ??????) what you said here has not been put on www.amiga.com ??? | I am not in charge of that...and I am in the UK, not in the US or St Louis. I agree that it should, and the guts of the announcement will go up later. I am here to clear the rumours and misinformation coming from the announcement spreading across the web. |
| Kevin Tiernan
Will OS 4.0 onwards be tied to PPC based hardware only (with a 68K emulator of course)? | AmigaOS4 will be PPC only, with a 68k emulator. OS5 will spread to other next generation chipsets. |
| Will The OS3.9 team, H&P et all, still be involved in the development of 4.0 --->? | Amiga is taking OS4 in house for design and management, but we will still be using some external contractors to do the work, and yes H&P is one of them. |
| What new features would you like to see introduced into the new OS versions? | Firstly it will be cleaned up and made to run very efficiently on a new piece of standard hardware. It will be made retargetable, to remove any of the old hardware dependencies, and then we will add features to support the new zico specification, such as PCI, USB, Firewire, Virtual Memory etc. We will also add other features, such as full Mesa support, a brand new audio architecture, the AmigaDE of course will be fully integrated, bringing lots of content and java to the platform for the first time, and there are lots of other things in the pipeline as well, that may be in OS4 or may be introduced in OS5. |
| Philippe 'Elwood' FERRUCCI
A little time ago, Tao said they didn't want to add Memory Protection and Virtual Memory to the kernel. You said Amiga will provide this. Is it still the case ? It seems to be a MUST have by some "VIPs" like the Frieden bros... A clear sentence would be appreciated. | AmigaDE will not have memory protection added to it. The markets it is being targeted in make it unnecessary for what it provides. Security will be handled in a different way than MP. For those who want to use the AmigaDE in that way, AmigaOS5 will allow them to run individual sessions of the DE in protected space in a logical distributed network within OS5. |
| Colin Wenzel
when will the 68K processors be un-necessary or redundant, so I can make a decision on what hardware to buy or what will be required for upward compatibility... | yes, the 68K is no longer necessary. We have worked hard with Eyetech and their link to the AA Amigas is just to use the AA chipset. All processing will occur on the AmigaOne, so no nasty context switches, no nasty anything. |
| questor72@yahoo.co.uk
I suppose this is only to be expected, but as a user of a PPC/060 Amiga I feel let down slightly. I'm happy that AmigaOS will live on, but feel that my existing investment in my A4000 will be wasted. Anybody tell me how to get an A4000 with CSPPC to run AmigaOS4 ? Or am I looking at dumping the whole thing and buying a new machine ? Which I probably cannot afford to do :-( | Fleecy>
We have tried our best to please as many people as possible but anyone who has a PPC accelerator knows the costs involved in that system. To really move forwards, it has to be new hardware without any hacks or bodges. Eyetech have worked miracles to have their AmigaOne work with A1200 and A4000 but there are limits. This is the first new Amiga certified hardware in over 5 years. There is a possibility that a third party could write a zico software compatability layer but the performance cost would be high. |
| Angus Manwaring
What does this mean for Amigans wanting to buy the AmigaOne? | It means that the OS that will run on the AmigaOne is AmigaOS4, a PPC OS that takes full advantage of the new hardware, |
| (follow-up) Okay. I'm confused though (not an uncommon situation). What is the difference between the PPC 68K emulation that we knew the AmigaOne was getting, and this PPC OS? | That was only for OS3.9 and an end of the line OS. It would have all been in emulation as opposed to OS4 which will end with a fully native PPC OS. |
| Alexander Lohrmann(Mr Return)>
Will there be any improvements over OS3.9 like: - A really integrated TCP/IP-stack | Brand new, written from scratch. |
| (follow-up) Cool :-) But it must have at least the features of MiamiDx, like a firewall (Maybe later), multiple interfaces and support for pppoe (Necessary for DSL in Germany) | Give us a chance, will you 8-) |
| - Memory Protection for new apps (I know it is impossible for old ones) | Virtual Memory will come in OS4, which will make a big difference. MP is much harder and will be done in OS5. |
| (follow-up) If you have virtual memory, MP is not that far away. But you should at least design an API that takes care of MP, otherwise it will be difficult to implement it later ... | No - VM is much easier to implement than MP. |
| - resource tracking | the Amiga Component Model will give you that. |
| - SMP | OS5 |
| - A new datatypes-system, especially for streaming and anims | The ACM and streaming system will give you that. |
| (follow-up) Hmmm... does that mean that you will integrate all the stuff you developed so far (ACM, Sheep ...) will find its way into AmigaOS 4 natively ? | Initially it will be via the AmigaDE, but it will become native. |
| - a new and better soundsystem, with support for surround and 3D | The Audio system will be the best of any system out there. We have 5 of the best audio people in the world working on it. |
| (follow-up) If I order an AmigaONE with OS4 now, will I get it tomorrow ? :-))) | I'll have to ask the magic cue ball 8-) |
| - 2D and 3D APIs, integrated into the gfx-system instead of hacked-in as now | Already underway, and with our close alliance with Matrox, there will be not only standard high level APIs but GLIDE like low level APIs to really take advantage of Matrox cards. |
| (follow-up) Will this be a new API or will it be based on existing solutions like Warp3D? Will there be a real 2D-API ? What about the latest 3D-features like T&L? | We are working with Hyperion and the Picasso team to create a new set of APIs, Ami2D and Ami3D that will allow us to take full advantage of the future hardware without any hacks as we have had to have in the past. |
| - a new Workbench | OS4.5 |
| - an improved intuition.library (we really need one !) | OS4.5 |
| (follow-up) When will OS4.5 appear, this year or later ? Will the new Workbench be rewritten from sratch or only an enhanced recompile ? | It will be a new product. OS4.5 will be out next year. |
| - hardware-independancy | OS4.2 |
| (follow-up) Does hardware-independancy include a new rtg-system or will something existing like Picasso96 or cybergraphics be used ? | We are working with the Picasso team to create a new system. |
| OS4.0 - | |
| - a good printer-system with drivers for more printers | Probably OS4.2, waiting for USB, and for the full benefits, OS5, the PDP media system. |
| (follow-up) What is the PDP media system ? | It's a new media product - lossless physical to digital to physical - any human sense in the physical world, digitised, stored, manipulated and passed back. |
| We always heard that the AmigaDE will run on everything from PDAs to servers. I think you have left this idea behind; as I have understood it AmigaDE will run on STBs and PDAs and the new AmigaOS 4. Is this right? [I have edited this question to make it clearer - I hope! NJB] | That's correct. |
| Do you think that there will be a really native version for x86 & co, I mean a real desktop-os, later in the future ? | It will integrate into existing desktop OSs. That is what all of our big customers tell us is necessary for success. |
| (follow-up) Without asking for names - is there any well-known software-company developing something for the AmigaDE ? | Yes. |
| What I liked about the AmigaDE as it was announced was that (as I understood it) developers could write an application or a game for the AmigaDE and contribute some kind of runtime-environment ... for every supported operating system. This could bring developers to the AmigaDE... Will this still be possible ? | Yes. |
| Will the AmigaDE still contain stuff like OpenGL, a sound-API or some gui-stuff ? Or will it only contain things PDAs need ? | The AmigaDE has a capabilities system which dynamically matches requests to capabilities. If you are on a desktop, you can use AmigaDE desktop apps. |
| (follow-up) This means yes - I could for example write game like QuakeXYZ and distribute it with a runtime-version of the AmigaDE for Windows, Linux and maybe MacOS X on the CD if I pay you some sort of licence-fee ? | Yes.
We have nothing to hide (except when the lawyers get involved) and I would rather people have the truth, even if they don't like it, than some rumours. |
| Will AmigaOS 4 run on existing PowerUP-hardware ? I think this is a must, otherwise many users will feel betrayed | At the moment no 8-( Anyone who has bought PPC accelerators understands the drag the architecture has placed on those products. To code an AmigaOS4 around that solution is to condemn it before it even begins. The new AmigaOnes will be cheap enough and expandible, and will be orders of magnitude faster than the existing products. It is hard, but this is the first Amiga certified hardware in over five years - the line has to be drawn somewhere, and this is it. There is a possibility of a software compatability layer, but the performance would most likely kill its usefulness compared to an AmigaOne. |
| Kevin Tiernan
my take on the situation is: Amiga DE stand alone for PDA's, Set top boxes etc. Amiga DE hosted on desktop systems such as Linux, winblows. Amiga DE embedded into Amiga OS 4.2 PPC. Fleecy is this correct? | Close 8-)
AmigaDE is our universal, runs anywhere solution - it must have a host, either hardware or software. For low to medium end open and any closed system, it can run hardware hosted. For desktop, workstation and server, it will run software hosted - this includes AmigaOS4.2, where it will be highly integrated, since we control the host - it will be faster on the AmigaOS than on any other software host. This gives Amigans their existing OS being developed, plus the AmigaDE, in one integrated package on one box, having full access not just to AmigaOS only apps but to any AmigaDE app as well. |
| harlock@iperbole.bologna.it
can we get something straight? I have a market standard WINTEL pc: will I be able to run amigaOSx or/and amigaDE on it? | AmigaOS4 will only run on zico specified hardware, such as the AmigaONE. AmigaDE will run on x86, but you will need a software host such as Windows or Linux. |
| > There is a possibility that a third party could write a zico software
> compatability layer but the performance cost would be high.
If you make the whole AmigaOS 4 retargeable it won�t be a problem to make it runnable on existing boards. You can switch off the 68k (Or use it as an interrupt-server or whatever) and have a PPC-only hardware. LinuxPPC runs native on it, so why not AmigaOS 4 ? Surely it won�t be as fast as an AmigaONE but it will be much faster than AmigaOS 3.9 on a 68k. You should ask someone like Hagge&Partner to do the drivers, since Sam Jordan already did WarpOS he should be able to do it. | That is a possibility, yes, but you should also look at that plus the decrease in speed against the cost of an AmigaOne, and remember that AmigaOnes have processor cards, so you can buy in low and then upgrade without having to throw the lot out later on, the way it always should have been. |
| Mikey C [mailto:michael.carrillo@ukonline.co.uk]
1: Great idea on integrating the DE and Amiga OS into one. However, I am concerned that this isn't a viable solution. This is because the AmigaOS (classic) market is very small, and I am wondering how this will in effect make the platform grow. I appreciate that you will hope to make vast revenues from the DE side of things, but I cannot see the Amiga Zico specification part of things growing. Actually I can only see it shrinking further. | It will grow because Amigans want new hardware and their OS developed further.
However, there is another huge market for this, and that is the home server,
where the AmigaDE runs integrated with OS5 to serve digital content throughout
the other AmigaDE devices in the home. We need to develop a proper home server
for the requirements we have for tomorrow - there is no server product that
can do that at the moment. The current AmigaOS gives us that basis.
The current expected market for home servers in the first world by 2005 is about 50 million. We'll be quite happy to get a large chunk of that, especially with an integrated solution that puts our universal content solution way ahead of the others. Remember that in software hosted cases, the AmigaDE can only ever be as good as the host on which it runs. By having control over one of the hosts, AmigaDE runs best on AmigaOS. Also, don't forget that this doesn't mean the AmigaDE will only run on AmigaOS - it will run on every desktop, stb and console OS out there. It is a truly universal solution. |
| From what I seem to read, your partnership with Sharp and Poss Psion, is only indirect via TAO and not actually directly linked via yourselves. | No. We are working directly with them. |
| Steven Solie
What is the AmigaOne going to use for a retargetable graphics standard going forward? | We are working with the Picasso boys to create a new standard, but it will be close enough to their old one to recognise. |
| Is the CyberGraphX versus Picasso96 war finally over? | Are any wars over in this community? I am sick of it, the ultimatums, the bitching - it drives you nuts!!!! |
| Finally, as a developer, what can I do to make the transition to the AmigaOne retargettable graphics standard as seemless as possible? In other words, what "standard" should I work with? | Work with the picasso one for now, and stay in touch. I want to get all serious developers together so that we can really help each other, rather than the riot that we have now 8-) |
| Cyberwlf
> AmigaOS4 will only run on zico specified hardware, such as the AmigaONE. > AmigaDE will run on x86, but you will need a software host such as Windows > or Linux. So ultimately Amiga are not making a standalone system for PCs. ... Can't DE exist in its own right without specialised customised etc hardware base? It can never attempt to be called an AmigaDE system, as its really a (win/linux)system running DE ontop. | |
| You can run AmigaDE on a PC without ever having to know that a software host is there. | |
| Cyberwlf [mailto:cyberwlf@ami-media.net]
seeing that MorphOS is so far ahead of H&Ps few month 68k JIT emulation thats in the works, why he cant the politics of H&P vs MorphOS be dropped and support MorphOS when apparently when u checked our MOS yourself, 0.3, u were very impressed with it, and were interested in using it for OS 4.0. | Amiga Inc intends to move the AmigaOS forwards, and we welcome all who want to work with us to do this. However, that means working 'with' us, and currently, that seems to be a bit of an issue. |
| Chris Moore
On 01-Apr-01, fleecy wrote: >> Without asking for names - is there any well-known software-company >> developing something for the AmigaDE ? > > Yes. Will this be announced at St-Louis? Are they well known ? ;) | Well I know a lot of game players who know who they are. |
| Mr.Return
Is it [PDP media system] made by Amiga or by another company ? Or is it an open standard (whatever this means) ? Can you tell me an information- source ? | We are developing it, but you should take a look at www.khronos.org |
| Are there any companies working on these runtime-environment-based solutions ? | We are 8-) |
| Another question: When do you think will real develpment-environments for both the AmigaDE and AmigaOS 4 become available (Something like StormC 4 would be great) ? How long are you working on OS 4 now ? And: It seems to me that you are still planing to release OpenGL for the AmigaDE (Even if it runs hosted) - when will this be available for existing SDK-users ? | We hope Storm C will do that as well. OpenGL for AmigaDE? It is already working but we have to tweak it for SDK 1.1. since some underlying stuff has changed. |
| Petrus Bergman
Will the VM in AmigaOS be optional? Will you be able to turn it of if you want to? | VM will be on a per application basis. |
| What about the new filesystem? Can you tell us about any features of it? Will it be compatible with the FFS, or will it be completly new? | As for the File System, more information will be released when we've tested
it 8-)
It is designed to be compatible with FFS but much faster. |
| Berend.
Is it the intention to use the Java Virtual Machine, now in the AmigaDE, to run nativly under AmigaOS 4 and higher ? Fleecy, isn't a JVM higher on the priority list then VM en MP ? | You get Java with the AmigaDE. Writing an AmigaOS native one would take a long time and cost a lot of money, for not much more speed benefit. |
| 1. Yes, there are a few companies doing this as well but as it is at the development stage, we have no comment | |
| > We hope Storm C will do that as well. You hope ? Or are there any plans from Haage & Partner to do it ? | |
| > OpenGL for AmigaDE? It is already working but we have to tweak it for SDK 1.1. since some underlying stuff has changed.
When will it be released ? I heard about June 2001 ... | No comment on release dates 8-) |